Talk:Super 8 Cartridge Notch Ruler

Canon 310XL experiment, K40 with no filter notch changes to 25ASA

I just performed an experiment with a Canon 310XL. Result: this camera meter assumes a lower ASA rating when you block the filter notch on a K40 cartridge, as the ruler predicts. Here is the methodology I used so others can repeat the experiment themselves:

1. set external filter switch to remove filter and look through gate as the camera runs to verify that the filter is not in place. This is the correct switch position for unfiltered exposure for both Tungsten balanced and Daylight balanced film. Page 13 of the manual describes the filter switch: "Daylight Type or G Type, both positions can be used".
2. insert unmodified K40 cartridge (0.8 inch speed notch, with filter notch) visual insepction shows two microswitches are blocked by speed notch and lower filter switch is not blocked
3. securely mount camera and aim at scene illuminated so that the red under-exposure flag just begins to move and the tip is barely visible in the viewfinder (camera does not have an aperture display but the red flag is large and has a lot of travel).
4. remove cartridge, block filter notch in cartridge, reinsert cartridge
5. red low-light warning flag moves completely into position

This indicates that this camera meter assumes a lower ASA when there is no filter notch in a cartridge notched at 0.8 inches. Reed S. 11:42, 21 May 2005 (PDT)

Minolta XL-601 experiment, K40 with no filter notch remains 40ASA unless filter switch is set to Daylight

I just performed this experiment with a Minolta XL-601 and it showed that removing the filter notch from a K40 cartidge does not change the meter setting on this camera automatically.

1. set external filter switch to remove filter and look through gate as the camera runs to verify that the filter is not in place.
2. insert unmodified K40 cartridge (0.8 inch speed notch, with filter notch) visual insepction shows single pin is blocked by speed notch and lower filter switch is not blocked
3. securely mount camera and aim at scene. Aperture reads f4
4. remove cartridge, block filter notch in cartridge, reinsert cartridge
5. aperture still reads f4

This indicates that this camera meter does not autoamtically set a lower ASA when there is no filter notch in a cartridge. You must manually place the filter switch to Daylight and then this camera will correctly expose Daylight balanced stock notched at 0.8 inches (25 ASA) and 0.5 inches (100 ASA). The filter will be removed automatically when there is no filter notch. Reed S. 08:44, 22 May 2005 (PDT)

Evidence that Daylight ASA column in ruler applies for cartridges with no filter notch

Here is the evidence:

1. I have a cartridge of Kodak Ektachrome 160 Type G which is 160 ASA Daylight balanced film. The cartridge has no filter notch and the speed notch is 0.4 inches away from the center. This matches the "Daylight" column in the ruler.
2. I have a cartridge of Kodak Ektachrome 160 Type A which is 160 ASA Tungsten balanced film. The cartridge has a filter notch and the speed notch is 0.5 inches from the center. This matches the "Tungsten" column in the ruler.

These film stocks have the same speed but different notch dimensions because one is Daylight balanced and one is Tungsten balanced. Reed S.

K40 to 64T

hello

i apologies for my bad english but i don't understand all that you say and there are no french site explainig the problem with the new 64T cartridge

i've got two cameras, the first one is an Yashica 50 Xl macro ( buy in 1978 ) the second is an Elmo 612s-xl marco ( that i've got in 2003 but i think it was made in te 80's )

So I made the tests with the notch ruler

firstly the Yashica got two notchs at 0.4 and 0.6 inches

and the Elmo got one notch at 0.6 inches

both of them got a lower notch and button witch i can switch beetween the daylight or a tungsten lamp. On the Yashica there is a "G" next to the sun icon.

So, if i want to use the new Ektachrome 64T ( or another film ) what should i do ?

( you can use my pictures if it can help users of your site )

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Hi,

AFAIK your Elmo will rate all films with a Tungsten-ASA-rating above 40 as a 160ASA-film. Same applies to your Yashica - but it supports 250ASA, too. (Films above 250ASA will be treated like 250ASA.) I don't know why your pictures tell another story?! Either there is something wrong with your ruler (e.g. not printed at a 1:1 scale?), or both cameras will treat the new 64T like a 40-ASA-film. In any case: It looks like both cameras won't be able to treat the 64T correctly when using the auto-exposure.

Jörg

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Salut,

je pense que votre Elmo va traiter tous les films avec une enclenche inférieur que 40ASA (Tungsten) comme un film avec 160ASA (Tungsten). Je pense que votre Yashica se conduit comme l'Elmo, mais elle va aussi reconnaître 250ASA (Tungsten). (Les films avec une enclenche inférieur que 250ASA vont être traiter comme un film avec 250ASA.) Je ne sais pas pourquoi votres photos disent que j'ai tort. Ou votre "ruler" est erroné (p.e.: ne pas imprimé à une échelle 1:1?) ou votre cameras vont traiter le 64T comme une film avec 40ASA. En tout cas: Il paraître que vous ne pouvez pas utiliser l'exposition automatique de ces cameras avec le 64T.

Jörg
P.S.: La version francaise de la "quoi faire"-section de cette FAQ

Unknown Bell and Howell camera- unsure what speeds it can read

I have a Super 8 camera that appears to be an old Bell and Howell, rebranded as a Sears product, and I'm confused about its compatibility. It's only got two switches- one for daylight/tungsten, and one in the film speed area. The instructions say the camera can read film that's ASA 40 in tungsten/25 in daylight with the filter, film that's 160 in daylight and 100 in daylight with the filter, and film that's 160 in all circumstances.

However, the notch ruler I printed out indicates that the switch present is for detecting ASA 64 film, not 160/100. I don't know which is correct, although I'm beginning to realize that this camera is basically incompatible with every single extant Super 8 filmstock and thus a waste of $40.

Jörg's comment

Most cameras that differ between only two speeds for tungsten (and hence two speeds for daylight) do have their pin placed at "strange" positions. In most cases their pins either follow the "not 40 ASA, so it most be 160 ASA"-logic or the "not 160 ASA, so it must be 40 ASA"-logic. However some cameras have their pin placed somewhere in the middle between 40 and 160ASA Tungsten and only apply a "less than or greater than"-logic. At the moment (January 2016) I can only think of one film-stock that is working "out of the box" in this camera: Kodak Vision3 200T. Kodak Tri-X, WITTNER: PXR 50 and Agva-Gevaert Aviphot Chrome 200D might also work, but only when you manually notch the cart as "tungsten" and then also manually disable the camera's filter ("bulb"-setting). The Adox PAN-X Reverso might also work when it's correctly notched as 100ASA daylight (my only cartridge with this stock so far was notched as 64ASA daylight, so you would have to manually enlarge the notch for the film's sensitivity).

(Some of the mentioned films are rated as 200ASA and will be exposed as 160ASA this way, but the films are "good enough" to "ignore" this small difference.)